Given your connection to U Chicago, are you aware of its history with what was formerly known as Rochester Theological Seminary then one of the premier theological schools in the U.S.?
It was a high stakes battle to build a premier research institute using John D.Rockefeller's money by the Northern Baptist denomination.
The head of Rochester Seminary Dr. Augustus H. Strong, and a close friend of Rockefeller's, wanted it to be built in NYC while William Rainey Harper and Thomas W. Goodspeed campaigned for it be built in Chicago.
As history shows Chicago won because an alumni of Rochester Seminary, Frederick Taylor Gates, tipped the scales. Because of the intimate connections between all these figures Rochester would funnel people to U Chicago for divinity PhDs. It was particularly strong in the Social Gospel movement.
There was also a close connection to the nascent Christian elite in China, particularly Shanghai, many of whom pursued degrees at both. In fact, my Shanghai great grandfather did degrees at both Rochester Theological Seminary and then went onto a PhD at U Chicago for Divinity studies and subsequently went back to Shanghai hence all this obtuse knowledge.
When was he at the div school? I only know its current woo-woo wokey era and its previous generation of Eliade/Culianu, Kitagawa etc comparative religion Key to All Mythologies vibe
Oh he was there when woke simply meant rustled from slumber, in approximately 1919. He studied at Rochester from 1916-1919 and then was funneled to U Chicago.
God knows how many Chinese people were at these US schools at the time but something tells me they were a distinct minority though the Baptists maintained quite a stronghold in the Weimar like years of China. My ancestor was a firm believer in the Social Gospel movement.
I think of Chinese then going to like Columbia Yale Cornell etc, I have no idea about Chicago! But yeah lots of Chinese then going abroad via mainline progressive Protestantism… these days it's semi-nefarious Straussians coming to Uchicago Social Thought following Gan Yang 😭
How much have you been influenced by Camille Paglia in her Sexual Personae persona? Much of your review of Volf and Wiman’s friendly chitchat, particularly the ad hominem comments, seem inflected with her sharp skepticism/plain speaking, although in your case this is relatively mild. The idea that anyone would publish their emails … well, anyone who does that is asking for it. Christians are in a tough bind. Evangelicals have completely discredited themselves in the US with their support of Trump, proving that their morality is infinitely accommodating if the politics are right. Or very right. Liberals sound like these two gentleman scholars, subject to vaporous thinking, warm emotions, soft arguments. I say this having traced the entire trajectory myself, from fundamentalist evangelical through left-wing evangelicalism (yes, that existed) through solid mainstream Congregational/Presbyterian/Episcopalianism to something suspiciously existentialist via Gabriel Vahanian and the so-called Death of God theologians. As an undergraduate I was an eager fan of Jürgen Moltmann and Wolfhart Pannenberg. I’m not a fan of Wiman’s poetry or essays, perhaps because I see so little discernible difference between him and my own intuitions. Volf’s political bromides are ludicrous. In any case an entertaining review, something different from what I’m used to from you. And as I’m sure you know, Solomon didn’t write Ecclesiastes aka Qohelet. My favorite book of the Bible btw.
oh I'm actually just reading Paglia for the first time, for an article I'm working on... I don't care for her positions on pretty much anything, and find her frankly homophobic, although I can appreciate the blend of intellectual and in-your-face language! I had never read Moltmann before doing the research for this article, but I came away very impressed by him, especially his reflections on the trinity. (Where) did you go to church while in Hyde Park, btw? And as far as Biblical authorship goes, I'm just enough of an evangelical still to ignore the scholarship and say God wrote it all...
Paglia's reputation has fallen, sadly. In 1990 Sexual Personae was outrageously original. Its most appreciative review appeared in Arion. Mostly it was ignored. Helen Vendler trashed it in the NYRB. I got an advance copy via a friend who worked at Bookseller's Row (then) next to the Biograph -- he handed it to me, said bring it back if you don't like it. By that afternoon I was reading whole paragraphs from her polemical introduction to my friends over the phone, pure comedy. Her biggest fans in the beginning were gay men. I can guess at which page, almost, you find her homophobic. Surely not. In fact somewhere she said something like, you can spot a Renaissance happening by the preponderance of gay men. -- In SP I especially enjoyed her chapter on Oscar Wilde, and her fearless rhetoric throughout. Tricky now though to champion a book I haven't read since it first came out.
If you want real hilarity, read her envious essay "Sontag, Bloody Sontag."
I was at the Divinity School in Hyde Park in the early 80s but, after doing a MA at Andover Newton Theological School (now alas absorbed into Yale!), I had no desire to live on that depressing campus and settled in Lakeview where it was still gangs and hookers and hairy men in buttless chaps. Unabridged Books had just opened, a beacon. By that point I had stopped going to church. The last and probably only church I ever truly participated in was the Church of the Covenant in Boston, a mix of Congregational and Presbyterian, activists, artists, academics, feminists, gays, etc, the heady utopian mix of the late 1970s.
I will dive into some of the other essays you linked. Another aspect to Blake.
Just curious what about Tablet tipped over the edge, from your perspective? This particular perspective on progressive mainline Protestantism is no doubt a small niche indeed, but a worthy one. "There are dozens of us... dozens!!"
Their support for Trump in the last election put it over the line for me, along with, of course, what seems to be their foreign-policy vision of bombing every Muslim state forever while fighting China and Russia... how this is 'good for the Jews' or anyone I cannot fathom
Given your connection to U Chicago, are you aware of its history with what was formerly known as Rochester Theological Seminary then one of the premier theological schools in the U.S.?
I don't know anything about it!
It was a high stakes battle to build a premier research institute using John D.Rockefeller's money by the Northern Baptist denomination.
The head of Rochester Seminary Dr. Augustus H. Strong, and a close friend of Rockefeller's, wanted it to be built in NYC while William Rainey Harper and Thomas W. Goodspeed campaigned for it be built in Chicago.
As history shows Chicago won because an alumni of Rochester Seminary, Frederick Taylor Gates, tipped the scales. Because of the intimate connections between all these figures Rochester would funnel people to U Chicago for divinity PhDs. It was particularly strong in the Social Gospel movement.
There was also a close connection to the nascent Christian elite in China, particularly Shanghai, many of whom pursued degrees at both. In fact, my Shanghai great grandfather did degrees at both Rochester Theological Seminary and then went onto a PhD at U Chicago for Divinity studies and subsequently went back to Shanghai hence all this obtuse knowledge.
When was he at the div school? I only know its current woo-woo wokey era and its previous generation of Eliade/Culianu, Kitagawa etc comparative religion Key to All Mythologies vibe
Oh he was there when woke simply meant rustled from slumber, in approximately 1919. He studied at Rochester from 1916-1919 and then was funneled to U Chicago.
God knows how many Chinese people were at these US schools at the time but something tells me they were a distinct minority though the Baptists maintained quite a stronghold in the Weimar like years of China. My ancestor was a firm believer in the Social Gospel movement.
I think of Chinese then going to like Columbia Yale Cornell etc, I have no idea about Chicago! But yeah lots of Chinese then going abroad via mainline progressive Protestantism… these days it's semi-nefarious Straussians coming to Uchicago Social Thought following Gan Yang 😭
Many also went to U Penn such as the great architectural historian Liang Sicheng.
The mainland Chinese intellectuals are also obsessed with Carl Schmitt.
How much have you been influenced by Camille Paglia in her Sexual Personae persona? Much of your review of Volf and Wiman’s friendly chitchat, particularly the ad hominem comments, seem inflected with her sharp skepticism/plain speaking, although in your case this is relatively mild. The idea that anyone would publish their emails … well, anyone who does that is asking for it. Christians are in a tough bind. Evangelicals have completely discredited themselves in the US with their support of Trump, proving that their morality is infinitely accommodating if the politics are right. Or very right. Liberals sound like these two gentleman scholars, subject to vaporous thinking, warm emotions, soft arguments. I say this having traced the entire trajectory myself, from fundamentalist evangelical through left-wing evangelicalism (yes, that existed) through solid mainstream Congregational/Presbyterian/Episcopalianism to something suspiciously existentialist via Gabriel Vahanian and the so-called Death of God theologians. As an undergraduate I was an eager fan of Jürgen Moltmann and Wolfhart Pannenberg. I’m not a fan of Wiman’s poetry or essays, perhaps because I see so little discernible difference between him and my own intuitions. Volf’s political bromides are ludicrous. In any case an entertaining review, something different from what I’m used to from you. And as I’m sure you know, Solomon didn’t write Ecclesiastes aka Qohelet. My favorite book of the Bible btw.
oh I'm actually just reading Paglia for the first time, for an article I'm working on... I don't care for her positions on pretty much anything, and find her frankly homophobic, although I can appreciate the blend of intellectual and in-your-face language! I had never read Moltmann before doing the research for this article, but I came away very impressed by him, especially his reflections on the trinity. (Where) did you go to church while in Hyde Park, btw? And as far as Biblical authorship goes, I'm just enough of an evangelical still to ignore the scholarship and say God wrote it all...
Paglia's reputation has fallen, sadly. In 1990 Sexual Personae was outrageously original. Its most appreciative review appeared in Arion. Mostly it was ignored. Helen Vendler trashed it in the NYRB. I got an advance copy via a friend who worked at Bookseller's Row (then) next to the Biograph -- he handed it to me, said bring it back if you don't like it. By that afternoon I was reading whole paragraphs from her polemical introduction to my friends over the phone, pure comedy. Her biggest fans in the beginning were gay men. I can guess at which page, almost, you find her homophobic. Surely not. In fact somewhere she said something like, you can spot a Renaissance happening by the preponderance of gay men. -- In SP I especially enjoyed her chapter on Oscar Wilde, and her fearless rhetoric throughout. Tricky now though to champion a book I haven't read since it first came out.
If you want real hilarity, read her envious essay "Sontag, Bloody Sontag."
I was at the Divinity School in Hyde Park in the early 80s but, after doing a MA at Andover Newton Theological School (now alas absorbed into Yale!), I had no desire to live on that depressing campus and settled in Lakeview where it was still gangs and hookers and hairy men in buttless chaps. Unabridged Books had just opened, a beacon. By that point I had stopped going to church. The last and probably only church I ever truly participated in was the Church of the Covenant in Boston, a mix of Congregational and Presbyterian, activists, artists, academics, feminists, gays, etc, the heady utopian mix of the late 1970s.
I will dive into some of the other essays you linked. Another aspect to Blake.
Just curious what about Tablet tipped over the edge, from your perspective? This particular perspective on progressive mainline Protestantism is no doubt a small niche indeed, but a worthy one. "There are dozens of us... dozens!!"
Their support for Trump in the last election put it over the line for me, along with, of course, what seems to be their foreign-policy vision of bombing every Muslim state forever while fighting China and Russia... how this is 'good for the Jews' or anyone I cannot fathom
Did not know that Volf had become an Episcopalian.
He was born and raised a Croatian Pentecostal in Serbia (talk about your marginal niches), but, well, you spend long enough at Yale...